I don't know how to tell a friend...

"StoneCold" (StoneCold)
10/03/2014 at 00:30 • Filed to: Craigslist

...how looking in the $2,000 to $3,000 range for cars is a terrible idea, and she should bump it up to at least $4,000. She wants a worry-free, automatic, at-least four seater. Her ideal type of car is a Jeep Liberty, but feels she needs something smaller when I tried offering WJ Cherokees. Boulder and Denver area.

Oppositelock. If someone comes through on this with me, there will be a reward. And it will be awesome. Like you'll put it in a prominent place on your mantle/desk/shelf. She picks your car, you get a gift I will send to you. I started looking myself, but have run out of time. My weekend is booked.

Random: this is the first search result for DAT FLEX

Oppositelock takes the first three spots.

I expected this:

DISCUSSION (61)

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 00:33

So something like this? Or this?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 00:39

I wouldn't say it's impossible.

StoneCold > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen
10/03/2014 at 00:39

Exactly like that. Except cheaper. And anything cheaper than that is going to be in the 200,000+ mile club. And that makes it unreliable/worryfree.

I'm going to press the point she needs to raise her budget in the morning -_-

So far I've got gambling on 180,000 mile, sub-2001 Accords. Haven't dove into Camrys yet.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
10/03/2014 at 00:41

Also, for the lols

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4644940022…

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
10/03/2014 at 00:41

Everything sub-$3,000 that isn't over 160,000 miles seems to be a scam or needs work.

Or is going to cost biiiiiiig if it breaks, like a 90's 7-Series.

It's a tough find :/

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 00:42

Worry-free, automatic and at least a 4 seater for low prices. My immediate first thought was this ...

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
10/03/2014 at 00:43

BAHAHAHA ALL OF THE STARS

bob and john > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 00:43

old camry/accord/taurus

StoneCold > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut
10/03/2014 at 00:43

Submitted.

StoneCold > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 00:45

Submitted the blue one. Needs a spare though.

StoneCold > bob and john
10/03/2014 at 00:45

Accords are the best bet, went through focus/escorts, camrys are getting looked at in the morning.

bob and john > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 00:46

also, try a caviler/sunfire.

as crap as they are, i'm not gunna lie, those things just dont. friggen. die.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 00:47

Okay, but is a high mileage car really that bad?? I hate the notion that high mileage cars should always be avoided like the plague. And if it's a first car, it's not going to be perfect.

HERE IS THE BEST ONE I COULD FIND

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4696774270…

Here are some others

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4644940022…

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4694143688…

StoneCold > bob and john
10/03/2014 at 00:47

Ohhhh, good ones. I know a few sunfire owners, and everything BUT the drivetrain seems to break.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 00:47

IDK something else like this?

bob and john > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 00:50

yea. and for 2 grand, i'm sorry, she doesnt really have much choice.

on the bright side, she could get a convertible J-body :P

Conan > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut
10/03/2014 at 00:51

Panther even feels good. 100% of the time it works every time.

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
10/03/2014 at 00:52

I will submit the Jeeps, and press harder that they aren't that big. I really like that red one, personally, but the tan '92 is so clean and documented that it fixed the death wobble.

StoneCold > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen
10/03/2014 at 00:52

K-Roll beat you by a minute :(

SVTyler > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 00:55

For her price range avoid Focuses if you happen across any more. Sub-$3000 Focuses (especially the early Zetecs) can be a) timebombs for a lot of very expensive things that the P.O. stopgapped until he could sell it, b) have a lot of tiny little things constantly go wrong with them, or c) be perfectly fine, dependable little cars that only need pads and oil changes. The trouble is you can never tell which one.

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 00:57

GODDAMNIT K-ROLL I WILL MAKE YOU PAY

Kinja'd!!!

YOU WILL SUFFER

Kinja'd!!!

StoneCold > bob and john
10/03/2014 at 00:57

I think you meant Chevy J-bodies, but you have me thinking of Chrysler J-body K-cars.

http://fortcollins.craigslist.org/cto/4652684081…

BOOM

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4631989193…

SHAKA

http://cosprings.craigslist.org/cto/4695336976…

LAKA

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4645834651…

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 00:59

I came here because I heard my name. Whats up?

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 00:59

My 4Runner is shorter and narrower than my Mom's Pontiac Vibe, and the 4Runner dwarfs XJ's. They are tiny.

StoneCold > Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen
10/03/2014 at 00:59

How did that...with the pia....wha? D:

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 00:59

Kinja'd!!!

Have you considered an Escape?

(P.S. - If your friend is cool at all she should totally go for this PMY one )

bob and john > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 00:59

does this mean I win?

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 01:01

Ask Clarkson... he also crashed it into a building, poured acid all over it, dropped it with a crane, and (i think) set it on fire >:) K-Roll will cringe!

StoneCold > SVTyler
10/03/2014 at 01:02

Yup, if the car is higher mileage, I only consider ones where the owner states what has been fixed. My friend has an '04 focus that is clean and looks great, but the brakes barely work. Like, they go to the floor until the last inch. It's terrifying from what I've heard. But everything else is just great =D

StoneCold > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s
10/03/2014 at 01:03

Looking for cars in the area. Lamenting that the craigslist is lacking compared to Chicago.

JGrabowMSt > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 01:03

With a little experience, I can tell you that isn't enough of a budget.

As with my Magnum, there's always something else to keep in mind.

1) $3000 tops, what's allocated for insurance and registration, and lets throw inspection in, unless you have free state inspection that she's going to use.

2) A high mileage car is not in or out of the question. Why is everyone so afraid of this? Doug said it wont blow up, and I made a really long post about why there's nothing wrong with high mileage cars. Well kept is well kept. Buy smart, don't buy cheap.

3) Don't a Jeep because it's what she's used to or wants. Buy the Jeep only if it's the good car for the price she can pay.

I'm going to rattle off some suggestions, with the finer points to keep in mind. It's up to you to do the real searching.

Dodge Neon 2000-2005. SE/SXT models. Timing belt, water pump, tensioner and serpentine belt have a service life of 105k miles. Rear sub-frames have a tendency to rot away, and like all other Dodges, the front end has bushings that aren't known for lasting a long time.

Chevy Cavalier. A friend of mine has one, bought it as her first car for $1200. No major service has ever been required. She runs it on regular, does the standard 3000 mile conventional oil change, and it has never had a problem. She goes to school in PA (next state over), and regularly drives home. For a short while one summer she was commuting back and forth with it. I think it has nearly 200k or more miles on it.

Honda Civic. They just fricken keep going. For the price range you have listed, don't expect to find one with less than 180k miles on it. That's not a bad thing, just listen at idle for any odd noises, check the engine for signs of leakage, and verify that the thing is getting in the ballpark of 30ishMPG, and you're set. The exact same thing goes for Accords and Camrys. If they're taken care of, the engine will be relatively clean and return great gas mileage.

As you've quite astutely noticed, any used car will require work. The Jeep Liberty that belongs to one of my girlfriends friends has a seized AC compressor. Not a huge issue, but a real bitch to get to for replacement. You're going to be looking at anything rubber on the car needing replacement. You'll also need to think about wheel bearings, every drop of every fluid, and brakes all around.

There is no turn-key used car. You don't buy a used car under the pretense that it will go for a zillion more miles with zero attention. It doesn't matter if it has 10k miles or 100k miles. For the price range you're looking at, it's cars that are starting out at 10ish years old, which have been exposed to some serious elements. Rust will likely be an issue on nearly anything you get.

If she doubles her budget, she can look at cars that will last a bit longer. I'd go for a Civic over an Accord myself, Camry's aren't bad, but don't do anything for me. If you're willing to look a little bit further back, you've got the Toyota Tercel, Mazda Millenia, Toyota Corolla, and with a higher budget, Saab sedans, some newer Dodge/Ford/Chevy cars with slightly better reliability and rust proofing, and parts that aren't on their last legs.

Unless she wants to go for a government auction retired cop car. Those go for dirt cheap and can be beat to the end of the earth, turned back around, and whipped back to where you started off from. But they don't have great gas mileage (they do for a V8, but not for a beater commuter car for someone who can barely afford the car alone).

I spent just shy of $7200 on buying, insuring and registering my Magnum. At 147k miles right now, I'm glad I got it because it's proving to be very reliable. There are a lot of cars for that kind of money that I wouldn't trust to get me to work and back on a daily basis (12 miles round trip).

StoneCold > bob and john
10/03/2014 at 01:04

You win my adoration, but the search continues!

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 01:07

All the obvious choices have been suggested so let's see if she'll go for this.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 01:07

OH MY GOD, no one uses the denver craigslist. There are never more than like 5 of each model. And even then half of them are customized into stupidity. I was looking for small pickups and I found an S10 in really good condition for 3k except for the custom backyard engineered hydraulic lowrider suspension. I just want to see good cars for good prices. Anyway, Depending on how close she is to me, I can haggle for her if she wants. My family owned a pawn shop, Im pretty good at it.

StoneCold > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
10/03/2014 at 01:07

Noted! Also, the yellow one is awesome, but salvage title.

Is salvage title that bad of a thing? I thought it was just a little extra when you try to insure it...?

Sportwägen, Driver Of The Red Sportwagen > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 01:07

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/watch-jeremy-c…

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 01:09

Oh. I didn't notice that. Well, each state treats salvage titles differently so look into what Colorado thinks of them.

StoneCold > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent
10/03/2014 at 01:09

Excellent! Submitted.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 01:11

Such stylish cars. I'd love to own one some day.

SVTyler > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 01:20

Definitely a good plan, even then it can be a crapshoot (ask me how I know). If she thinks WJ Cherokees are too big maybe try something like this ? The 4.3's in those things are damn near bulletproof, plus they come in 4 and AWD which I'm sure she'd like to have in the winter.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 01:21

A Jeep Liberty is not a good choice for a worry-free vehicle.

The most reliable vehicle I ever purchased only cost me $1700. In my opinion $4k-6k is primetime scam range. Tons of too good to be trues and curbstoners.

StoneCold > JGrabowMSt
10/03/2014 at 01:21

I'm not afraid of high mileage cars, I'm just playing the odds that lower mileage cars will be less of a hassle. The only high mileage ones I consider are the ones that explicitly detail what's been fixed.I wish I could be there to check the car out myself, but I'm a couple states away; she has no one really car-savvy out there to check things like rust on the rockers/wheel wells, tire wear, etc.

3) Don't a Jeep because it's what she's used to or wants. Buy the Jeep only if it's the good car for the price she can pay.

I suggested a Cherokee, and she mentioned the Liberty thing after that. I am looking into them for their reliable engines (4.0), tough frames, and utility. You can get all that for a decent price.

And thankyouthankyouthankyou for the advice! I am pushing that the more invested now, the better the longterm and overall experience will be.

Fun fact: Our 2005 Liberty has broken AC too! @80,000 miles :)

DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 01:23

Volvo 740.

StoneCold > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
10/03/2014 at 01:24

Mmmm, the $3-$4k range was usually the range I look more for scams, noted.

And I know the Liberty isn't the most reliable, we have an '05. Looots of non-essential things are broken XD

StoneCold > SVTyler
10/03/2014 at 01:26

Submitted, I never got a confirmation on whether trucks were okay. But in that range, it's going to be some of the best choices.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 01:33

Sounds exactly like my wife's Sable

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 01:41

I think this is the obvious choice.

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4672832513…

Or on a more realistic note...

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4692110707…

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4681127144…

SVTyler > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 01:43

If she's wanting a worry-free vehicle in that range she'd be missing out if she excluded trucks. And my apologies, I mistakenly said that particular Blazer had the Vortec, it actually has the LR2 V6 which weren't exactly known as great engines (they had a tendency to throw rods and eat head gaskets). The post-'86 ones with the LL2's were a lot more reliable, as are the Vortec-powered 90's and 2000's ones.

StoneCold > SVTyler
10/03/2014 at 01:46

No worries! Thanks for the Chev-ucation!

StoneCold > DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully
10/03/2014 at 01:47

Weird, seems like 80% of the Volvos there are 850s

SVTyler > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 01:55

No problem, man, glad I could help even a little bit.

DancesWithRotors - Driving Insightfully > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 02:05

Go for a 740 or 240. Non interference engines, very durable and incredibly easy to repair.

JGrabowMSt > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 02:07

In all honesty, lower mileage cars can be bigger trouble than higher mileage ones. I say that because the higher mileage ones got there, and had to go through certain maintenance to get there. While it's more obvious in the high end luxury cars, often times when you buy a lower mileage, older car and you finally start driving it, that's when you see things start to go on them.

Also, out of my own personal preference, I wouldn't buy a Jeep. The liberty gets a pass because the pentastar V6 is actually a really reliable engine when it's taken care of, but the Grand Cherokee/Cherokee are some of the most dangerous cars on the road period. They outright fail the moose test. That is something that scares me very very much, and should scare everyone else too. It's a car that honestly shouldn't even be on the road in my opinion. The american crash test standards need some serious revisions.

I forget who it is, but another Oppo just recently picked up a two door cherokee with I believe the 4.0, and the floors pans require complete replacement. I would look to 2005+ cars if at all possible. Dodge Neons are known for their rust issues, but it is localized to the rockers and the rear fenders. It had to do with Diamler Benz being real cheap about rust proofing only the outside of the metal. These cars effectively rust from the inside out. They're cheap, and reliable though. If you (or she) can knock on it and get an idea of the sound of metal vs the sound of mush, you'll be able to tell if it's good or not. The sub frame you just get under the back and look. The front K Frame requires the car to be on a lift in order to properly inspect. My Neon only has rust on the rockers, the front and rear sub frames are in great shape. I'm not sure a Colorado car will be nearly as lucky, but you'd never know without actually looking.

It's always good to push for the best long term experience, but there's no way to tell whether spending more or less now will provide it. $2000-3000 will buy plenty of reasonable small econoboxes, but they will be older and higher mileage. If she's not interested or doesn't have much knowledge in cars, the first few months will be an exercise in caution. You'll have to create a checklist of things for her to do, and places to take the car for it.

For example, oil change. If she goes to walmart and buys the oil and filter herself, she can go to midas with it, and get an oil change with that stuff for $5-$15 most times. Super cheap, and while they're at it, she can ask for them to look over the car. I've found that many of the Midas techs are really friendly, great people, and know their shit in most cases. They're human and make mistakes once in a while, but she can drive around to a couple and mention that she is looking at getting a used car. They may even have one in her price range sitting on their property. Some cars need work, some are ready to go. Often times you just need to ask. Oddly enough, like you mentioned, a Midas by me has a 740iL V12 for $2000. Cheap for a BMW, but a mechanical disaster for the next person. I'm personally a fan of the $12 Midas oil change for my Magnum. I bring them everything it needs, and they have a couple advantages. 1) No mess in my driveway 2) They are a lot more prepared if something happens with the drain plug or oil filter. That isn't to say Midas is always perfect, I've had a problem with some of their work in the past, but I will be fair and say that the one problem I did have is not enough of a reason for me to never use their service again. My problem was partly my fault for asking them to do something a little weird, and partly because they weren't very familiar with the car. The mechanic doing the job started getting frustrated, and we all know where things start to go when we get frustrated.

The best advice I can give is that she should try to look around a couple of places like that, but not make a decision immediately. Get some pictures of the car, hopefully a video of it running with the hood up, and have her send them to you to look at individually, and get more of an idea about. Given that she's depending on other people for any problems with the car, it gives her the opportunity to get a feel for any good mechanics around. Getting to know the mechanics can sometimes get you a little break here or there with parts or labor, so it's to her benefit to at the very least, look around and inquire.

Hiroku > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 03:26

If she doesn't know anything about cars and don't know anyone car-savvy around, then she absolutely, positively should bring a mechanic to check the car before buying . Most workshops will do that for cheap and it's definitely a better investment to pay a little more right now than ending up with a useless rust bucket, specially if it'll be a daily driver that she'll be relying on professional labour to maintain and is on a tight budget. I cannot stress this enough.

Hiroku > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 03:29

Those will pretty much last forever as well if cared for. If it's in her price range, I'd consider one, too.

shop-teacher > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 06:22

She wants a worry free suv for under $3000? I hate to be that guy, but tell her to try fantasy land.

thebigbossyboss > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 07:30

Come in under budget. If mechanically sound as claimed car is fresh man!!

Kinja'd!!!

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4696872051…

thebigbossyboss > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 07:33

J body owner here. (Cavalier). Paid less than $3K for it with 55,000 miles. Now at 118,000 miles. Things that broke; Fuel pump, exhaust pipe.

thebigbossyboss > JGrabowMSt
10/03/2014 at 07:39

To be honest, I disagree. I paid $2960 (cdn) for my J body. It has ate up 55,000 horrible city miles in frigid temps. A $3K budget for the purchase IS enough.

Before that I had a Ford Tempo I got for $2300. Slow, and uncool, but fairly reliable.

JGrabowMSt > thebigbossyboss
10/03/2014 at 08:57

The difference here, in my opinion, is that normally, yes, we can handle these cars and work on them and get them working with only a little effort at that. The question at hand is for someone who doesn't work on these cars themselves, and will be taking the car to someone else for everything probably. With that in mind, I wouldn't advise someone who's being so strict about their budget go for something that a mechanic could potentially see as easy money.

If this were specifically for the OP or for someone who was going to mess with their own car, I would say that in some reasonable cases, $1000 could be enough.

I get your point, but I think that for someone who has little interest in cars, it's a dangerous proposition to set the budget so low. Again, as I originally said, my friend has a Cavalier that she got for $1200, and hasn't had a problem yet. It's a pretty nice car as well, but if she had a major issue, she'd be sending it to a mechanic for all the work. That could seriously bite into her wallet if it's the wrong mechanic just looking for easy money.

JEM > StoneCold
10/03/2014 at 10:09

Yeah, if she wants a Jeep Liberty type vehicle, she's much better off in the $4-5,000. For a basic passenger car, you could stay around $2-3,000 but trucks/SUVs always command a premium. That said, here are some possibilities:

Mostly I'm looking at Jeeps and Xterras...

'02 Xterra, 140K - $4,000 - http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4671974828…

'00 Cherokee, ??K, $2500 - http://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/4696509521…

'98 Grand Cherokee, ??K, $2,000 - http://denver.craigslist.org/ctd/4696495299…

'00 Xterra, 200K, $3,400 - http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4696220374…

'99 Grand Cherokee, 174K, $3,000 - http://boulder.craigslist.org/cto/4686911504…

(^^^ my pick for her, has a new motor with 43K on it and looks to have been well maintained and kept up)

'03 Grand Cherokee, 163K, $4,400 - http://boulder.craigslist.org/cto/4654426289…

'01 GMC Jimmy, 153K, $3,000 - http://boulder.craigslist.org/cto/4696948767…

(^^^ this would be my 2nd choice)